The director of the upcoming exclusive Vimeo On Demand release Some Girl(s), Daisy von Scherler Mayer, has helmed everything from indie darlings to adaptations of beloved children’s books to, well, Mad Men. She took a few moments to speak with us about how she approached bringing Neil LaBute’s script to life, and also offered a nice dusting of industry insight, as well as her thoughts on living in Hollywood vs. “Anywhere Else” debate for creative professionals.
Some Girl(s) will be available for rental or purchase exclusively through VOD this Friday, June 28th.
Would you please give us a brief introduction?
My name is Daisy von Scherler Mayer. The von Scherler comes from my mother, Sasha von Scherler, who was one of the stars of my first film Party Girl . The film also starred and broke out Parker Posey. That was all the way in 1995, but it’s become quite a cult classic. It’s actually going on tour this summer to a bunch of different art houses in England, which is crazy.
How did you break into directing?
I broke into the film business from being super scrappy. I had a theater background, but my friend and I wrote the film for me to direct. We used every resource we had available in our own lives, then reached out to people that were way too qualified to engage with us. But, they liked the script and so they worked with us. It was at that point in the early 1990s where there was a lot of fun, poppy indie film happening. Indie film was making the transition from being more art house to more commercial, lighter indie films. We were a part of that which was great.
I went on to do a couple more movies, including Madeline with Frances McDormand. I’m very proud of that because as a kid’s film it’s pretty evergreen. That was completely different [from Party Girl]. It was based on the Ludwig Bemelmans’ children’s books. My goal was to make it as visually close to those books as possible. Everything I’ve done has been very visual with a little level of a heightened reality.
How did your visual style work with Neil LaBute’s writing?
I feel like Neil LaBute is very naturalistic. These characters [in Some Girl(s)] are incredibly real and very relatable, but you do enter a universe with him. I love him as a playwright and as an author. The idea of bringing his very specific world to life was a great opportunity.
How did you specifically get connected with this Some Girl(s)?
The whole project was well on its way before I came on board. I knew the producers because we had been involved in American Film Institute’s Directing Workshop for Women. When they reached out to me, I was incredibly excited. They had a lot of the cast in place and it was already moving along which was great. It all came together and I was lucky to have so much of it ready,
The script was a play first. Did your theater background add appeal to working on a film like this?
Absolutely. It’s so great to have scenes longer than a page. A long film or television scene will be three or four pages, maybe five. It’s a unique opportunity to shoot a 25-page scene where the characters have a complete catharsis within that one room, within that one conversation, where they go from comedy to drama. All those levels, which are more what you do in theater, we were able to do for Some Girl(s). That’s the kind of work that’s really joyful and hard and fascinating for me.
How did you approach rehearsing 25-page scenes?
We had these boot camp days. The way we structured it was there was a day of rehearsal before each three-day shoot for each scene. The film was shot in 17 days. The actors came in with such incredible preparation. They knew all the lines. They all had done a lot of personal work, emotional work identifying with the characters, and figuring out where the beat shifts and changes, figuring out the dynamics of the scene. That is the way I think it came to life. It allowed me to really shape those moments and work on the staging so that we could vary it visually.
We broke up how it was shot, and tried to do that with respect to what the characters are like and what was going on in the scene. I had the cinematographer at rehearsal as well, Rachel Morrison, who’s great. We were really about to roll up our sleeves and do it together from a naturalistic place, whereas a lot of times when you’re working for film, you’re working very quickly, you’re making decisions for less organic reasons.
Production still from Some Girl(s) courtesy of Leeden Media
I heard an interview where you talked about how you approached the design and direction, framing it to match each female character and her temperament. Can you speak more to that?
Absolutely. The first scene, with Jennifer Morrison, I would say is the earthiest and in some ways the lightest. It’s more traditional and regular. She’s the one I relate to the most because she’s a mom with kids and wondering why her past is being dredged up by her ex-boyfriend. They’re meeting in this very low-end motel and the atmosphere is very cool.
In Emily Watson’s scene, she plays his college professor, it becomes warmer and the camera is more elegant as we move around on a dolly. It goes with her more sophisticated character and their more sophisticated relationship.
The one that’s super raw is the scene with Zoe Kazan, whose character was younger when she knew him. I don’t want to give too much away, but it’s a very disturbing scene so we chose to shoot it handheld. It also takes place in that earthy cool environment, the regular-ness of his earlier life, but the whole thing is sort of unsettling. We chose to make it brightly lit and yet at night. This was an interesting choice on the cinematographer’s part to create the illusion almost like he’s under a spotlight or at a police station.
And Mia Maestro is the sexiest woman alive. The scene in the hotel room with her is amber and glowing. I love it because they’re talking a lot about their relationship and how they used to do drugs together and the focus keeps coming in and out. I feel like it was a blurry relationship and they have a blurry relationship now. She’s the one who’s ostensibly the least hurt by him and yet you kind of reveal, in one of my favorite shots in the film actually, she turns away from him and doesn’t say a word but you just see it all on her face.
Production still from Some Girl(s) courtesy of Leeden Media
When you read the script was it immediately apparent to you that you needed to take this approach? Or was it more the result of discussions between you and the DP?
We definitely knew we needed to take a different approach with the each of the women. Even within the scenes we knew we needed to change our styles. I kept thinking it can’t all be in close up. These scenes are so intense you probably would shoot in close up for a lot of these in a typical film. There’s a great moment with Kristen Bell where Adam Brody’s character says “I Made a list, and I put you on the list.” We’re right in front of them, the light is flat but still pretty, and she’s just making these faces like “Are you kidding me?” But, he doesn’t see what she’s doing. Whereas when it got more dramatic, we’d go behind them and it’s backlit, or we’re on another side of the room. We were very conscious of breaking it up within scenes.
The truth is Neil’s work is so great, I feel like they would have played even if I hadn’t worked as much as I did to have people cross the room for the water bottle. I was so interested in what they’re saying and the dynamics going on between the two of them. His character is such a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He seems so sensitive and smart like that nice guy from college, he doesn’t seem like an obvious villain or an obvious sexist and he keeps saying sort of insensitive things and then he ropes you back in. I think part of that was the casting of Adam Brody and you keep thinking, “Oh but he is a nice guy.” Then you’ll realize he’s making them relive this pain.
I hate to draw this connection, but as a female director were you drawn to the fact that predominantly female cast and strong female characters?
Absolutely - it’s not off point at all. I’m interested in women’s issues, particularly how men hurt women. That scene that’s in all of Neil’s work is really something that interests me. What was particularly appealing about this script is that the women have such strong voices and such an opportunity to respond, almost not to just this character, but to all the characters in all of Neil LaBute’s scripts. You have five different women and five different responses and they really do get to say their piece. When we do screenings of it it’s amazing how many women in the audience say, “Oh yes, exactly, I’ve always wanted to say that to that guy.”
The film has played the festival circuit, have you noticed a trend of reactions like this from women?
What’s really funny about it is that it has this strangely therapeutic quality. I feel like a lot of people end up talking about their relationships, and about the toxic bachelors they’ve dated. We were just at deadCENTER Film Festival in Oklahoma and I had a guy come up to me. He was there with his 23-year-old son. He was talking about how young men today don’t take responsibility, and the movie was a cautionary tale for his son about what not to do to women. So it’s just great, I do feel like there have been really good reactions, but particularly among women I think who have dated this guy which apparently is many - I mean I related to it. He’s proven to be a particularly relatable character. This guy is more commonplace, I think, because what he does is under the guise of being sensitive and needing to express himself. It’s really very fake, I think he’s actually a really sadistic guy, and he’s enjoying on some level the torture he’s putting these women through. That was my interpretation.
Production still from Some Girl(s) courtesy of Leeden Media
I’m sure Adam Brody maybe doesn’t like hearing this, but it’s strange to imagine Seth Green as a sadistic guy. Did his interpretation vary from yours?
Exactly! It’s like here’s Seth Green all grown up! But I don’t think Adam has any bad mojo about being known as Seth Green. You know that was a fast-talking fun very lovable guy, to some degree Adam will always have that in him.
One of the things I think makes the film work is that I had a much more negative interpretation of the character than Adam did. Adam was very much like “I’m on his side.” He has to be as an actor, he should be. I think the tension between me feeling this character is unredeemable and Adam trying to redeem him extra hard because of it - is another kismet that worked out well.
Changing subjects a bit to directing in general. We briefly discussed your theater background in college and the early days of your career, I’m curious what advantages you think starting in theater has given you in directing television and film?
For projects like this you’re set. You know how to rehearse, you know how to roll up your sleeves, and you know how to do the deep investigation of working with actors. I’ve run into a lot of projects where I’m working with non-actors or less trained actors, working with people that are at different levels in terms of acting. I have certainly had to do a ton of training on the job because I didn’t go to film school. I feel like I’ve gotten better and better at it. By doing TV, I’ve gotten faster and faster at it because television is so fast. It’s taken a while, but all the pieces are fitting together now where I no longer feel like I have gaps or holes to fill. It’s all kind of come together as it was meant to.
You mentioned you worked in television as well. What are some of the major differences, aside from speed, between directing TV and film? Do you have a favorite between the two?
I would say film is my favorite between the two because you have more creative power. The auteur of a television show is definitely the creator and the writer. I think it relates back to your theater question because when I was directing theater. Sometimes you would have a new play by a new playwright and you were catering to that person’s vision. They would be at the rehearsals and it was their play. You wanted it to be realized the way they saw it. What’s interesting is directing television is a lot like when you’re working with a new play. It’s not about you as much as it’s about them, and what it is that they want.
The shows that are most exciting to do are the ones where that person gives you the most leeway. I did an episode of Shameless and they were like, “Go for it!”. We just went crazy; it was really fun.
I guess one of the things I love about television is the variety. There’s so much good television out there. You could get hired to do one thing where you’re doing big dance numbers and the next week you’re directing Mad Men.
From where you sit, how has the industry changed in the past 17 years?
When I started, production companies like Touchstone were making 25 adult comedies a year. Now I don’t think they make any, maybe one or two family films. Everyone is just making so much less. The atrophication of the business is obvious.
When I started, television had such a stigma. I was asked to do Sex and the City, and my agent advised me not to go near television. Now I’m happily directing The Carrie Diaries, which is a sort of kid sequel on the CW. I’ve done Mad Men, Shameless, Nurse Jackie and the kind of television that’s within those veins. People who are in the business now have a lot of respect for what’s going on in the television world, particularly on cable television. That’s a huge change, because that really wasn’t the case when I started.
Also, just the fact that people are putting films together without enormous budgets and without enormous access and are able to get them funded. You know there’s a lot more openness. Technology is so much more equalizing.
What are you thoughts on platforms like Vimeo on Demand and the future of online distribution?
I think it’s a really exciting time in which people looking for interesting or educated content in movies don’t have to go to the next town with the obscure art house. And that art house may not be able to afford to have that festival film. Now people can look to places like Vimeo and see a plethora of incredibly great material out there. Theatrical distribution seems to have atrophied to a point where theaters can’t hold the amount of good films that are being made. Honestly, as a parent, I don’t know that I would get out of my house to see a festival film at the Laemmle. If Vimeo is giving us that opportunity to see material like that, I think it will be great for filmmakers because it means there are more outlets for them to publish their material.
It’s always going to be competitive, especially with technology being cheaper. It means there are more movies being made which means there are more bad movies being made. It’s just going to be better for the audiences because having a film on Vimeo doesn’t necessitate that you have a big star in your film. There’s just too many indie films being made; having a star isn’t enough, it has to be good.
You mentioned that, in general, filmmakers have more access to resources right now. You also mentioned you’re based in Los Angeles – do you think location is still really important for a working director?
It’s funny, in Oklahoma I met some documentary filmmakers who have a television station there and they’re just making shorts and they’re making a living making these amazing doc shorts. But I said, “Yeah, but you guys should still come to LA.” And they asked why, since they we felt they have access to great stories in Oklahoma that people from LA don’t have. I agree with that, but Los Angeles is still the entertainment capital of the world. If you really want your vision to get out there, it makes sense to at least visit and demystify the community in LA or even New York City. From the business angle, you just can’t be scared of LA, or say they’re a bunch of idiots, because they still have an enormous amount of power over what can happen to your film or what access you have to the right actors or technicians or people you need to finish you film.
Don’t be scared to go deal with Hollywood. Hollywood wants you, especially young people. They want new voices and new people and they’re much more open than I think people give them credit for.
Production still from Some Girl(s) courtesy of Leeden Media
Last question, kind of a cliché, but always interesting: What advice do you have for aspiring directors/writers/creators?
For screenwriting, the thing you need to remember is the script needs to be great. I mean Party Girl we wrote and rewrote and rewrote and rewrote that script until it got to the place that people wanted to do it. We didn’t know how helpful that was going to be because that ended up meaning we could go to a higher caliber costume designer and everybody else because they wanted to do that script. If six or seven people don’t like the same scene in your script, listen to the fact that they are all saying something about that scene. So there must be something wrong with that scene, and take yourself to task to fix it. I always say don’t take the notes, but take the light - see where they’re shining it.
Make the film good. Make sure it’s the best it can be, get a lot of feedback from people. If you think it’s done, it’s not. Go rewrite it again. Even if your movie is shot and you’ve finished the edit, go show it to some people, keep holding yourself to the highest standard. Be hard on yourself. Push yourself. Part of me feels everybody wants to go make his or her film, but you have to ask yourself the tough question: is it ready to get made?
The other thing I would say is that if you have a narrative about yourself like, “I’m an actor’s director, I’m not great at the technical stuff” or “I’m not great with actors, I come from video,” then go fix that other thing. Go take that acting class or, especially with women, you have to be technical. You have to be better technically than your male counterparts because nobody thinks you are. I’ve experienced that a dozen times. At a certain age, you get to the point where you say I’m this way and that’s the way it is or am I going to address what I think is not my strengths. I chose the former and directing makes me so much more joyful now.
via Vimeo Staff Blog http://vimeo.com/blog/post:582
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